…which is why I switched to gnome and haven’t looked back!

I don’t care what the KDE devs’ plans were, or what “the future of the desktop” is supposed to be, for me it won’t be KDE 4. Start the first app and then use the Start Menu? I never used that crap. But that’s not important, it’s my personal point of vue. What’s important is that KDE 4 makes it difficult, when not impossible to work as we are used to. The folder view might be an interresting addition to the desktop. As it is I am forced to use it, and that reminds me of other OS in a way I don’t like.

The panel is still much less comfortable to setup and use that it is in 3.x – to me the panel is the center of my computer life, so it’s a real annoyance.

I feel that the devs actually don’t really listen to the users. they are so full of their great design that they rely on time (and the desappearance of KDE 3.x) to kill resistance.

Reminds you of Vista/Windows 7?

Linux on the desktop shall be a contender for Windows only when all the community zealots (Gnome, KDE, freedom of software and so on) all realize that a thing is philosophy (“users should prefer crappy free tools to working non-free ones”, and similar) and a thing is what the average people expect from a PC. Unless the community accept this, GNU/Linux shall remain something for geeks and almost-geeks, even if it actually deserves *MUCH* more attention. Remember: Linux is presumed to hold a very, very few percentage points of the share over the world PCs and PC users, and this percentage is divided among the hundreds and hundreds of distros listed on Distrowatch. Where do we want to go this way? We are doomed to remain hobbyists with a common interest unless something changes. I do not think M$ really fears Linux.

My useless 5 cents.

Note: Satisfied Arch/KDE users. I do not use Arch, but I know that EFFICIENCY is a factor for people wanting to use it.
Therefore, it is illogical that such a user would tolerate KDE4 if it were truly unusable and mainly inefficient!

So, KDE4 CAN and DOES work for people.

I suggest that this type of user is one who typically is able to apply a degree of effort for themselves.

“I think it would be a Really Good Thing if there were some very clear documentation on the paradigm shifts between KDE 3.x and 4.x and that it was in your face as part of your initial user experience.”

Perhaps the most annoying thing about KDE 4.1 for me has been the difficulty in finding accurate, up-to-date, and readable documentation.

I am told that many programmers do not like to write documentation. However, it is unwise to release any software (especially something as new and different as KDE 4.1) without thoroughly documenting everything. Some simple, well-written tutorials would be especially helpful to new users.

the guy taking the ultimate decisions in this project is probably running his project off his vista laptop. that is what they are aiming for yeah? well, it sucks. its bad, ugly, buggy and something no-one wants. the boys at gnome are probably laughing their asses off. never had they to do so little to gain so many fans.

i now hate kde. i couldn’t care less what happens to it. they dont seem to listen to their users. a$$holes.

from now on, i will seriously start considering other options. kde, may you fail (inevitable) and rot in hell.

will

I think you can install KDE 3.5.x on (K)ubuntu 8.10 by adding the Madscientist159 repository to your sources.list file (you’ll also need the repsitory’s gpg). Check out this ubuntuforums.org post for instructions and issues that may apply:

HowTo install KDE 3 into Intrepid

Before I upgraded my Kubuntu, I had a really nice KDE 3.5 desktop which “just worked.

Now – every blasted thing I do, I hit some new problem.

In KDE 3.5, I could have a few well chosen Icons which would launch my most common applications with a single “click” – Wherever I was, whatever I was doing.

As far as I can see – that is now gone. Yes, things have replaced it – BUT they all require more than a single click – and I resent every single one of those extra clicks. They get in the way of me doing work! If there is some way of putting this back – I can’t find it. The user documentation which comes with KDE 4 is so out of date it is simply shameful.

Where’s the brief, simple “migration guide”. It might be there – but I can’t find it, and I have looked.

In KDE 3.5, I plug my camera in – and it works. Now broken. Bug reported. No response. No fix.

In KDE 3.5 opening an archive was easy. Now it is harder. It takes longer and is more tiresome.

In KDE3.5, creating an archive was beautifully easy and integrated. Also now gone and seemingly replaced by nothing.

Don’t even mention how long it took to get the graphics working!

I could keep this list going for a long, long time.

Sorry – for this person doing “real work” KDE4.1 is slower, more frustrating than KDE 3.5. This user is now so hacked off he is considering looking at Gnome etc – something I NEVER thought I would do.

The KDE team need to look very hard at themselves – what they are doing, how and why. You are giving an impression here that you have forgotten WHY people use KDE and what actually matters.
PLEASE try and “get the basics right”. Currently you are failing, as viewed from here.

Andrew

Let me begin my introducing myself. I’ve been using Windows NT-based operating systems for the better course of 10 years. I’ve only recently made the switch to GNU/Linux, with the help of Ubuntu.

Out of curiousity and in the name of science, I’ve tried out Kubuntu a number of times, beginning with 7.10. Shortly thereafter I went back to Ubuntu. I tried again with Kubuntu 8.04, but, again I switched back… Always due to stability and lack of things working out of the box.

I thought perhaps they’d get it right with 8.10, and whoa! I couldn’t even recognize the system.. Nor could I find a SPECK of documentation, anywhere… Lots of docs on Konqi, nothing on the massive changes to my desktop I was now looking at and trying to understand on my own.

It didn’t take long, however. After reading lots of information from the KDE website, forums and mailing lists I had a better understanding of my new “desktop” and I honestly liked the direction Kubuntu 8.10 was going…

I did find myself in the Konsole more often than not, though. This is a blocker for the new users This is why I cannot recommend KDE to the average user as an alternative to GNOME!

The Problem
————–
What Ubuntu is doing for the GNU/Linux community as a whole should not be overlooked, regardless of HOW you use GNU/Linux. Fact is, we’re all in this together. You guys in the KDE community should grow up and start acting like it, instead of feeding flame wars.

I mean, really… What I’ve read here from people who appear to be members of the KDE community is absolutely terrible. Do you even realize the negative impact your retorts have? I, for one, after reading this batch of user comments, cannot find a reason why I’d support the KDE project. It sounds like it’s their way or the high way… The exact reason I left the Microsoft community:)

The Solution
————–
1) Listen! Why doesn’t anybody listen? Every single frickin retort I’ve read seems to start with something along the lines of `Because you’re not using it the way the KDE devs intended` or `Because Kubuntu doesn’t properly implement KDE. If you want to use KDE don’t use Ubuntu.`

The real problem isn’t that he wasn’t using it the way you wanted, but that he didn’t know how you wanted him to use it.

The other problem is that, if you KDE guys know there’s a flaw in Kubuntu’s implementation, why haven’t you submitted a bug-report –at the very least– or volunteer your knowledge? Better yet, your time? After all, we’re all in this together:)

2) Instead of flaming people who weren’t let in on the grand plan KDE devs have for the world, why not inform them? Better yet, why doesn’t KDE itself inform them, like Windows XP informed you of it’s new “paradigm” or feature-set. It’s the first thing you see when you boot a newly installed XP, it’s called “Tour Windows XP” and introduces you to your new OS:)

The Conclusion
—————–
I like KDE. I like GNOME. I like blogs and I like change… I really, really dislike the hostility comming from the KDE community, however.

You all need to take look at yourselves from a 3rd-person’s perspective, and consider just how many users you’re losing by simply being so rude and hostile:)

Humurous note
—————–
Ah, I couldn’t help it.. All these responses remind me of the old cry Microsoft made –Until they, too, realized the problem– about device drivers… You see, heh, most of those blue screen-backed stack dumps aren’t Microsoft’s fault, but the fault of poorly implemented device drivers…

The point? NOBODY CARED! They still raged about their Blue Screens and the more Microsoft denied responsibility THE LONGER THE PROBLEM PERSISTED!

Until Microsoft couldn’t handle the influx of complaints anymore and decided to go straight to those manufacteres and offer their own engineers to fix the frickin issues, NOTHING changed, except for Microsoft’s own reputation, not the manufacturers… In fact, those shoddy companies are STILL making shoddy drivers… Now they’re just doing it for Linux, too:)

*cough* ATI, Creative Labs *cough*

I had a similar experience to the OP, except that you can’t accuse me of screwing up the installation. I installed Kubuntu 8.10 on an empty drive…and things simply did not work. Plasma locked up frequently, both with the free and the proprietary Nvidia drivers. The first couple of older (KDE 3.5) apps I tried installing crashed, and there weren’t KDE 4.1 versions available. When I searched the web/forums for support, I mostly found problems without any posted resolutions. I spent several hours digging for answers, including via irc, without any success at all. Finally, to see if it was just hardware issues, I installed Kubuntu on my laptop, which has practically no hardware in-common…same problems.

As for all the new features (which I’ve been looking forward to and reading about), well it’s hard to experience those with things crashing every few minutes.

So, after maybe 5 years of being a loyal KDE user, I’m also on Gnome now. I’ll give KDE another try in a year or two. I don’t have a problem with the KDE team going through a transitional release or two. But I strongly object to the Kubuntu team treating Kubuntu 8.10 like it was a usable release.

I had roughly a month on a clean installation with the latest updates and I experienced all of the quirks mentioned by deviceguru as well as quite a few of my own. I’m not sold on all the functionality improvements, but I’m willing to wait it out until everything becomes solid and keep on working with it.

I think it would be a Really Good Thing if there were some very clear documentation on the paradigm shifts between KDE 3.x and 4.x and that it was in your face as part of your initial user experience.

Really there are quite a few people adopting linux who are not familiar with differences between distro’s, desktop environments, or tweaking things by hand and there should be a real effort to make it as easy as possible for them to make the change from 3.x to 4.x

Thanks deviceguru!